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Restore competitive balance, end the monopoly of power

training trophy competitive game play

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#81 FaithfulAizen

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 10:35 PM

Yeah I have mellowed out about the energy trophies


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#82 Ouch

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 12:25 AM

Again the point of your post is just to say that other trophies have benefits and you spend a lot of wasted time beating that horse.

 

But it all boils down to what you simply agree with -  that the training trophy is far more powerful than any other trophy

 

For what reason?  What necessitates a trophy so powerful it skews the entire game?

 

And the answer to that Excrucio is...nothing.

 

There is no point to having a trophy that is so powerful that it directly affects the purpose of the game -  gaining skill points.

 

You can write your magnum opus on how other trophies give indirect benefit and you would be writing it for no other reason that to please yourself and obfuscate the real issue and the real problem, which is that two to three teams can amass such a lineup that it would, in effect, lock out any other team from ever being able to possess the training trophy and, in doing so, eliminate competion for the top.

 

When that happens in real life, we call that a monopoly and they are generally perceived negatively.

 

Further, if the training trophies were removed, what harm would come to the game?  

 

NONE!

 

Players would go on gaining their skill points  the same ways they have without the training trophy.

 

So, we have an item (items) that, left intact, skewer the basic measuring stick of the individual and it is given out at team level so 30 people can take advantage of it.......

 

-  or we just power up our own heroes individually, and then create the team around that dynamic.

 

The team game is what is suffering.


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#83 ErmaEmpath

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 12:58 AM

Hero Zero programmers please hear us , you are our only hope.

Clearly something needs to be done with the training trophies.  US 2  is no better than US 3 .   I have been trying to get my team on US2 to lose the trophies to lower teams.  Then take form the other top two teams and pass the training trophies  down to the lower teams.   Seems once you get training trophies , you get addicted to them.   Many do not want to let go of the training trophies.    Ouch described  the problem accurately.

In my opinion ,  a close fight is more exciting than a slaughter.  Lower level teams should have the opportunity to get stronger.  The way it's set up now , the strong keep getting stronger at a faster rate than available to the lower teams.    I think this needs to even out.  

I don't see all the teams agreeing to send trophies down to lower teams.  A change in game programming is needed.   Holding only one of each trophy type could be good , it will spread the trophies out over many teams.

Hero Zero , please hear us !  We suspect more and more players will quit if something is not done.

The arrangement of league fights is good .  It's like boxing , heavy weight , middle weight , light weight .  The Fight does not  have  the heavy weight guys go pound on the light weight guys.  That would be a slaughter .   Yet , that is what happens in team fights .   If a lower team gets a training trophy a bigger team comes and takes it away with in a day,   There is no chance of keeping it.     Teams only being allowed one training , one energy , and one courage  might stop  this madness.


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#84 Ouch

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 03:30 AM

It is really bery simple to illustrate the power

 

Myself and a player of equal stat points (allotted differently or the same -  it doesn't matter) decide to join teams , both expanded 100%

 

I join a team that is ranked #10 while the other player joins the #1 team who has 5 training trophies locked up and a roster of players that make it virtually impossible to take away.

 

I do my daily training, use all my energy daily, fight all the fights I can and the other player simply does their training with the 5 trophies to aid them.

 

In one month of playing beyond that time, that player, despite not putting forth the effort I put forth, is in a FAR better position than I stat wise -  almost exponentially better.

 

So it isn't a matter of effort.  There are players out there putting in the effort equal to and above the players on the #1 team, and yet they are not reaping the benefits.

 

The stat bonuses should be awarded to individuals that show the effort, not to teams that can hoard trophies.

 

It is really very simple and undeniable -  the training trophy is out of balance and an anathema to what the game is about.  It disproportionately rewards simply being one of the 30 that can join the right team and is punitive to those who, for whatever reason, chose an alternate path.  That path should not be punished but be given the same chances to excel at the game.



#85 starknerd

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 03:33 AM

Ouch, I think you are missing the point.

 

You said, "Why would courage and energy need to be removed?  That is specious logic."

 

There are many of us in disagreement with you because we believe your original topic to be only just that, "specious logic."

 

We are opposed to this idea in its infancy.  In its heart.  There is no bargaining that can make it better since we feel it to be fruitless (and annoying) in the first place!  In many ways, your efforts are perceived as shaking your fist at the wind. There's a rack of reasons to do nothing and you won't hear them.  There are all kinds of logical reasons to leave the game alone, and you won't listen.

 

I think this is talked out.  It's barren of benefit since you mandate that you are right and there is no other way but yours.  It's just no use.

 

Keep playing and jumping teams and doing whatever makes you feel better in the game.  But, there's no use in trying to change your mind and no great, proven, benefit in changing the trophies.  I hope the game remains the same and you decide to love it or leave it.  On caucus night, my vote is for playing the game the way it is.

 

 

Why would courage and energy need to be removed?  That is specious logic.  

 

They can remove the training trophy by itself.  Like i have said multiple times it is the only trophy that gives direct improvement benefit to the entire team.  

 

You could substitute in a battery trophy or a new selection in the store trophy -  you can do whatever you want -  just because the training trophy goes does not mean anything else needs to happen at all.

 

But the training trophy is the one that skews everything.  No one else is out there hoarding energy trophies or courage trophies -  and for good reason -  because they have no direct benefit to skill points.

 

Skill points are what we measure one another against.

 

The game is amassing skill points at its core, that is all it is.


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Love and Joy, all year 'round,

 

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#86 Ouch

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 03:49 AM

Honestly, I find your post barren and devoid of any point except you do not agree with me.  That is basically the entire crux of your posts in this thread, to disagree and take very thinly veiled jabs that are not even remotely related to the topic.

 

But as I look down the litany of posts, I see many that do agree and others who can provide no reasoning why such a obviously stilted reward need be part of the game.  I also see more people joining the brigade of people who agree.

 

So, Dogberry, the point is missed by no one but you.  Vote how you like but you have not typed one word that undercuts the logic of what I am putting forth, no matter how much you want to weave in your .... other issues.



#87 starknerd

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 04:17 AM

Everything is related to the topic.  You miss it.  Disagreement is pure, logical, discourse. 

 

The point is not, "missed by no one but" me.  That's just being a bully to put it that way. Typical.

 

No one needs to "put forth" logic that weaves into your words.  You don't listen anyway.  Why try?  You speak against having five Training Trophies but shout your words as if you have them.  It's pointless.

 

The game needs to remain the way it is.  In this thread, I have no "other issues."


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Love and Joy, all year 'round,

 

Dogberry


#88 Bobmeister

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 05:06 AM

Once again can we Please stop with the arguing? This isn't a topic to rant about who is wrong and who is right...

It's about sharing your opinion and hearing what others think about the situation at hand.

 

Keep it cool guys~ If this nonsense keeps up then the topic will be locked...we don't want that now do we? ;)

 

Thanks

-Drew


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#89 Excrucio

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 05:07 AM

 

 

"Again the point of your post is just to say that other trophies have benefits and you spend a lot of wasted time beating that horse."

 

LOL this guy.  I've posted a reply twice, you've posted 12 times in this thread essentially repeating the same mantra over and over: "training OP, nerf plz!" yet I am the one beating a dead horse?  Oh the irony...

 

 

I'm done with this thread.  Nothing more left to be said really.  Have fun bickering!


Edited by Excrucio, 02 February 2016 - 05:09 AM.

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#90 starknerd

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 05:26 AM

Thank you, Bob.  And thank you, Excrucio.  The game should remain as is.


Love and Joy, all year 'round,

 

Dogberry


#91 LittleOne

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 06:01 AM

​Well maybe this will be helpful.  Until there are changes made to the trophy system, people have to find a way to work with it.  I personally like all the different types of trophies.  So what do you do if you don't have 5 training trophies?

 

Well for one, you may want to rearrange the team you are on.  Put people in place that can help you gain a training trophy.  Or move to a team that can help you gain a training trophy.

 

Maybe focus on stat building over leveling for a while.

 

Try some new fight setting strategies.

 

Find a team to share trainings with.  Send a couple of your guys over for a month. 

 

There are lots of things that can be done.  And if what your doing isn't working---time to change it maybe.



#92 FaithfulAizen

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 07:21 AM

I sorry Littleone but I really doubt another team would be willing to share there training trophy with another team.


Aizen is the best

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#93 LittleOne

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 07:42 AM

Gotta broaden  your scope of looking at things Faith.   I you have an alliance, or a sister team.  Also, I had been offered before a place on a team just to partake in trophies for a while.  That's why it is always better to make friends instead of enemies. 

 

But just have to use your imagination. 



#94 unnie

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 09:07 AM

Hero Zero programmers please hear us , you are our only hope.

 

Alright. Time to step in once again. We've followed your discussion here with great interest and now that it seems that the subject is either talked through already, or slipping a little bit too much away from the subject of this topic/thread, I suggest the following:

  1. Put your intelligent heads together, and draft us a properly documented suggestion in the appropriate area of this forum
  2. Keep talking if you feel like it, but remember to read the first post again - once in a while - so you don't forget what the whole idea was.
  3. If  you have something off-topic, but maybe similar or close to this issue/"thing"; Feel free to post a new topic and discuss those other things there.

You all good with this?  (smug) 

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Tomas Luoto

Supervisor

Team HZ.US


Team Supervisor - Hero Zero U.S.

Having trouble with your Flash player - or plagued by the Sweating sickness?

Contact Game Support here!


#95 FaithfulAizen

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 03:50 PM

Sorry Unnie

 

Actually Littleone I was asked by another team to come and use there training trophy which I refused since I didnt think it was right


Edited by FaithfulAizen, 02 February 2016 - 03:52 PM.

Aizen is the best

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(smug) brb gotta do dishes (smug)


#96 unnie

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 06:34 PM

Sorry Unnie

 

Actually Littleone I was asked by another team to come and use there training trophy which I refused since I didnt think it was right

No need to apologize dear friend.

 

I know there might be some "back story" to all of this, or something that has gotten this discussion up to be a current event, so to speak.

Now, anyway - it's easy to continue talking about it, just leave out the personal things and stay on the subject. Or as I proposed, start a new thread and/or perhaps also a separate suggestion for improvements. We, the team, would very much like to see that happen - especially what I said about a new suggestion.

 

Yours, Tomas


Team Supervisor - Hero Zero U.S.

Having trouble with your Flash player - or plagued by the Sweating sickness?

Contact Game Support here!


#97 FaithfulAizen

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 07:05 PM

theres no need thank you though


Aizen is the best

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#98 Ouch

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 11:13 PM

Unnie, is this the section of the forum to make the suggestion or is there some other part of the forum where the proposal should be submitted to be reviewed.

 

Personally, I would like to involve discussions with Dev's in order to figure out some aspects of the training trophy feature and what could be done.

 

Is that possibl;e?



#99 centella

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Posted 22 September 2016 - 08:36 PM

ummmmmm

 

I can see the whys of both points of views

 

 

but going to the extreme by eliminating the training trophies?

 

 

yes, there is a huge advantage to someone who uses 5 trainer trophies and then leaves over someone who has 5 energy ones, does ALL MISSIONS (including team bonuses, and using the new basket and even special missions ) but only the 10 trainers plus any extra ones as part of team bonuses.................... after a few months even when both started at same level and skills

 

there are from what I see after reading both points of view, 2 possible solutions

 

1>   instead of 10% penalty per trophy ( 50% with 5 )  it becomes 15%  ( 75% with 5 )  , is silly to make it 20%  ( 100% with 5 )

 

or one I think is better

 

normally as of today, 5 train trophies gives out 25 sessions ( basically equivalent to 2 and the half days advantage over someone without the trophies )

 

we could lower the reward to either 2 sessions per day or 3 ( 10 sessions with 5 trophies, or 15 sessions with 5 trophies ) which would give ONLY 1 day(I think it is preferable ) or 1 and the half over advantage over those without them

 

it still reward those teams who fought hard to get them and maintain them but it is not such an overwhelming advantage


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