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Restore competitive balance, end the monopoly of power

training trophy competitive game play

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#1 Ouch

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 02:15 AM

I want to take a moment to address what I see as one of the most detrimental  facets of the team game in Hero Zero which is leading to a lack of competitive balance and the break-up of good teams for the lure of the easy way out.

 

The problem, as I see it, is training trophies.

 

The training trophy, unlike the other trophies, adds a permanent bonus to players who may not have even played a part in obtaining it.  Players leave their teams to join the scant few teams that can win and hold training trophies leaving a chasm of competitive discord with any team ranked below #4.

 

The training trophy is breaking apart teams and making it impossible to put together a team that can compete for the top spot while the top team(s) hoard the training trophies.  Players then leave their teams to join these teams, cementing a monopoly of power  that cannot be overcome so long as these players continue to take the easy way out of improving their players through organic means.  Why join a team that is #6 when I can join the #2 or #1 team and never have to ever compete? All the while hauling in the abundance of the hoarding of the top teams.

 

It is my belief that the training trophy should be removed.

 

Further, to bring a competitive balance back to the game, all skill points derived from training trophies should be removed. 

 

I know this sounds drastic, and perhaps it is.  But if we do not take steps to break up the monopoly of teams that can obtain and hold a training trophy, then we will be left with a game that ceases to be interesting since it ceases to be competitive and ceases to have even a CHANCE to be competitive.


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#2 FaithfulAizen

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 02:38 AM

sadly I agree with you ouch on this maybe give it to a lower ranking team or only give said team a timelimit of 4 days to use and then it gets sent somewhere else. A good example of horriding it is on br13 top team


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#3 TheDarkLight

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 03:00 AM

Thank you for your suggestion it will be forwarded for consideration and possible implementation.


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#4 Mommy

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 03:21 AM

I agree completely. Well said, Ouch. 


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Have fun! Its a game! :D


#5 FaithfulAizen

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 03:41 AM

I would be surprised to see the ones who have said trophy complian about this :D


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#6 Excrucio

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 04:42 AM

Here we go again...

 

There have already been many alternatives suggested to remedy this situation in the past (trophies can only be held for so long before going back into circulation, increasing the number of total available trophies, etc).

 

"Further, to bring a competitive balance back to the game, all skill points derived from training trophies should be removed."

 

LOL, you do realize that if you take such a drastic measure then you have to do the same for ALL trophies as well.  Teams that stockpiled energy and even the often loathed courage trophies will have still generated much more coin over time (weeks, months, years) than teams without the benefits of such trophies thus further creating an imbalance between player lvls and stats if you were to only remove training benefits. 

 

At one point (several years ago in fact) they said they would be limiting trophies to 3 training units instead of 5... they never followed through on that so one can assume there will most likely never be drastic changes any time soon...

 

http://forum.us.hero...hy-adjustments/


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#7 kelly6

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 04:49 AM

I would like to see the training trophy limited to one per team


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#8 starknerd

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 06:39 AM

Those who can't, teach.


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#9 Evolution

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 07:24 AM

"Waaaaaa!!  Someone else gained something through hard work and is now benefiting from it while I'm not, this is wrong!  Spread the wealth!"

 

If this is done it negates the goal of working hard in a game.  It's the same as giving everyone a trophy "just for playing".   Work harder than those above you and eventually you will catch them.  Or.....whine some more.  Up to you. 

 

Competition is NOT about balance.  It is about being the best.


Edited by Evolution, 29 January 2016 - 07:26 AM.

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#10 NewDay

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 07:36 AM

100% support. Well-stated Ouch.

 

To people saying to get better and get the trophies yourself; it is impossible to do this when a team has established themselves with a permanent fixture (i.e. the trophies in question), there is no need for a person to leave those teams for a different team without training trophies. This will lead to a continuous flow of people flocking to the training trophies/team.

 

As a metaphor - would you go take a job which offers you the same responsibilities, same location, same amount of work etc. but pays you less if you could go to another company which requires the same but you get paid more, no you wouldn't and the same is happening here. Would you go to a different fully expanded team only to receive a lesser trophy when you could be getting the best one (the bigger pay cheque)?

 

SUPPORT SUPPORT SUPPORT!!!


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#11 starknerd

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 07:51 AM

Lots of Heroes change teams for a variety of reasons.  And as to, going to a lesser paycheck -- you must mean like Ouch just did.  Again.

 

 

100% support. Well-stated Ouch.

 

To people saying to get better and get the trophies yourself; it is impossible to do this when a team has established themselves with a permanent fixture (i.e. the trophies in question), there is no need for a person to leave those teams for a different team without training trophies. This will lead to a continuous flow of people flocking to the training trophies/team.

 

As a metaphor - would you go take a job which offers you the same responsibilities, same location, same amount of work etc. but pays you less if you could go to another company which requires the same but you get paid more, no you wouldn't and the same is happening here. Would you go to a different fully expanded team only to receive a lesser trophy when you could be getting the best one (the bigger pay cheque)?

 

SUPPORT SUPPORT SUPPORT!!!


Love and Joy, all year 'round,

 

Dogberry


#12 badger

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 10:24 AM

100% agree Ouch.

 

I have 2 years of game time on here , over 2 servers, and the same issue is consistent . On US3 , 2 members from our team worked endlessly to strategize and figure a way to tip the balance to spread the trainers out . In the long run, they simply abandoned the team to join the top team. With the additions of these 2 players , plus the return of another, there is no team on the server who can prevent the top team from retaining 5 training trophies for an endless amount of time. 

  Its not a matter of get stronger and take them from them...the rewards of training trophies (5 of them) equates to an additional 375 points a month players from other teams cannot access. So it doesnt matter if you are a consistent player, use 4 rounds of energy a day, and use your free 10 training units religiously,you will never catch the players who maintain a grip on those training trophies..

 

I have an idea on how to fix this, but obviously it will need input and work.

 A team can have 30 members max. if a team has a trophy(any trophy), they defend it with 25 members, if they hold 2 trophies, the defend it with 20, 3 trophies 15 , 4 trophies 10, 5 trophies 5. this will allow the trophies to be put into play across the server, while forcing strong teams to try to build the best combination of trophies they can for maximum gain without having a stranglehold on the server.

 

As i said , a very rough idea at best for your consideration.


Edited by badger, 29 January 2016 - 10:52 AM.

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#13 FaithfulAizen

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 10:57 AM

that makes sense I know I find it dificult to get a lot of skills for my character on us2 since my skills cost so much. I have to get 1 million coins just to buy 4 skill points. It so easy for other since they have the trophies


Edited by FaithfulAizen, 29 January 2016 - 10:59 AM.

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#14 elboboo

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 12:39 PM

There is an imbalance in the game due to the extreme power of some teams to hold whatever trophies they want. Taking away all of those rewards from said trophies is not likely or should it be but there are ways to equal things out. The game itself becomes less fun when you are at the top working nonstop for a goal that is not even in reach due to the strangle-hold that some teams have over the server. I dont know what the best answer is but an idea would be teams 1-10 can hold no trophies 11-20 could hold one of each trophy 21-30 could hold 2 of each and 31-??? (the rest) can hold how many ever up to the total of 5 trophies that are now aloud. With this it really wouldnt take long to recreate a balance in the game which is what we all would like.


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#15 badger

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 12:54 PM

all due respect, but wouldnt that just cause people to 'team jump' to lower ranked teams to keep gaining the training points?


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#16 elboboo

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 02:10 PM

yes it could but at the same time making the top teams weaker and lower teams stronger therefore making the servers more competitive



#17 Ouch

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 03:36 PM

"Further, to bring a competitive balance back to the game, all skill points derived from training trophies should be removed."

 

LOL, you do realize that if you take such a drastic measure then you have to do the same for ALL trophies as well.  Teams that stockpiled energy and even the often loathed courage trophies will have still generated much more coin over time (weeks, months, years) than teams without the benefits of such trophies thus further creating an imbalance between player lvls and stats if you were to only remove training benefits. 

 

At one point (several years ago in fact) they said they would be limiting trophies to 3 training units instead of 5... they never followed through on that so one can assume there will most likely never be drastic changes any time soon...

 

http://forum.us.hero...hy-adjustments/

 

 

No other trophy gives you skill points directly so your suggestion is more of a red herring, a distraction to the actual problem.

 

But a reasonable compromise would be just get rid of training trophies. It is a start.  It restores competition.


Edited by Ouch, 29 January 2016 - 03:42 PM.


#18 Ouch

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 03:41 PM

"Waaaaaa!!  Someone else gained something through hard work and is now benefiting from it while I'm not, this is wrong!  Spread the wealth!"

 

If this is done it negates the goal of working hard in a game.  It's the same as giving everyone a trophy "just for playing".   Work harder than those above you and eventually you will catch them.  Or.....whine some more.  Up to you. 

 

 

 

 

How?  In fact it does the opposite.  Each INDIVIDUAL is then responsible for their own activity and through their own activity either flourish or perish.  It really is that simple.


Edited by Ouch, 29 January 2016 - 03:42 PM.


#19 npe

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 03:45 PM

Just a quick reminder please keep discussions friendly. 



#20 LittleOne

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 05:24 PM

Being that this topic is referring to me and one of my friends, I feel the need to speak into it.

 

First for those of you who actually KNOW me, and there are few that do, I have a reputation of fairness, kindness, and loyalty to my friends and my team.  People who know me would never say that I haven't worked hard enough for a training trophy.  Haters will always hate.  Bottom line is you do not know why I left unless I tell you why I left.

 

I have always discussed there needing to be a better way when it comes to training trophies.  There are threads where I have given my suggestions already.

 

Just remember this people.  A game is meant to  be fun.  When it is no longer fun, make some changes.  Why continue to do something that isn't fun.

 

Now---I will not throw any of my friends under the bus.  I will say this---Richter is one of THE BEST players on the server.  And if anyone wants a great person to play with---he is it. 

 

And there are soooo many great players on GV still.  MBobette, SuperMom4, fg2, I can go on and on and on.

 

Now Trainings are extremely important.  But they aren't the only thing that is important.  GV had 3 trainings.  We had basically a permanent set of 2 for a long time.  There are basics about a team that need to be in place in order to keep those trainings.  Not everyone who plays the game plays competitively.  But everyone does want to be on a competitive team.

 

Now historically speaking.  LL did not start off with training trophies.  The truth be told VV started with all the training trophies.  Sugar Rush didn't even start off with the training trophies.  Yet Sugar Rush made it to the number one spot without a monopoly of training trophies.  LL did a very strategic merge with Anonymos that put them in a better position to compete with VV.    This is all us3 history.  Being that us3 is the server that has caused this uproar.

 

I still would not be opposed to a better disbursement of training trophies.  But really folks----don't hate on two of the hardest working and playing people on the server.  I wouldn't call it an easy way out when both Lionheart and I have been working hard at the game for a very long time.  I would call it being smart enough to make a change that kept the game fun for us when at least one of us was planning on leaving the game. 


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