56 replies to this topic

[King of Thieves]

I think both your's and Antoniella's suggestions are good ones, Erma.

[King of Thieves]

Well, at the time I wrote it, you did still have the best trophy setup, Silverwing. But now your old team that had the monopoly we've been speaking of and who's monopoly we've been trying to break, took a training trophy from one of their academy teams. So now they have 3 training and 2 energy.

 

That's why we have to work so hard to keep such monopolies from happening and why I favor Antoniella's idea.

 

It's a shame too. That was their academy team's only trophy. We have an academy team too, but we try to help them get trophies in an effort to help newer and lower level players get stronger so they can compete. Though our "academy" team really isn't an academy anymore since our efforts have helped them grow into a strong team in their own right, though still not as strong as your team is.

 

So you see? There is something that can be done about such monopolies, and we're doing it. Perhaps your team would like to help in the effort? They're a strong team and ranked 3rd. Of course, that would mean taking those trophies from your old team.

 

But, I guess we'll have to continue to take trophies from the teams that try to monopolize the trophies and pass them down the line where your team can continue to "farm" the little guys, as you said. But instead of "farming" the teams we drop trophies to, why not drop trophies to those little developing teams yourself and "farm" those teams you think are trying to monopolize trophies? That's what we're doing.

 

Just like we dropped trophies to weaker teams and take them away from the team that's trying to monopolize trophies, your team can too. But I guess that really depends on if balancing the server is really your goal like it is our's, or not.

 

I know it's hard since the two teams that were originally monopolizing have now merged and now it's that much harder to try and maintain balance and that they are your old team mates. But if you drop some trophies down to the little guys, you shouldn't have too hard a time. Your team can beat both them and us at a 3 to 5 trophy ratio.

 

Though I do see where it would be difficult to take trophies from them AND keep the 5 you have in your trophy case. But that's why I suggest dropping some trophies to those lower ranked teams. Heroes are supposed to be self sacrificing anyway. And if the Villains can do it, surely the heroes can too. Don't let the Villains be the only ones doing something heroic for the server. This is a hero game after all.

[Silverwing]

I'm pretty sure your current team has attacked us a few times and even taken training trophies from us. So see? It can be done. And currently, your team has 2 training and 2 energy trophies. That's a pretty good set up. We only have 2 training. Both our teams have one courage. I'm not seeing the issue. In fact, of all the teams on the server, your's currently has THE best trophy case.

 

[EDIT] I see you changed your profile's team affiliation to reflect your current team.

 

        And the game is plenty fun. One just has to determine what they consider fun. Would it be fun for you to have the best trophy set? That would mean you were making it less fun for others, by that standard. And truth be told, your team does currently have the best trophy setup.

 

​Well I never posted in the forums since I signed up, so didn't realize the old team was listed.

 

As for your team having 3 trophies, it is pretty common knowledge that the 2nd place team took 1st from you a couple of days ago.  Giving away your trophies so that they can not attack you is a good way to do things.  Teams that are in 1st and 2nd place, would never see the issue that other teams are having because it wouldn't apply to them as they wouldn't have the issues.   As for our team beating​  you a couple of times, it is only when we have 3 trophies can we do so.  Once again, the top 2 teams are unbeatable when another team has 5 trophies which has been the case for months on end.  And as long as the top 2 teams have 3-5 training trophies at a time, no other team has a chance.

 

[Antoniella]

And this is why I made the suggestion, we can go back and fort discussing how things should be, but in reality it doesn't happen or it's a very hard thing to implement. So the game can be more relaxed for everyone and there are less arguments. I mean look at us, we are on top 10, what chance do we have to rise higher than 6 or eventually catch up to the stronger teams? Practically none, it's been a hard swim against the current and it's not just us, what about the other teams below us? By capping the amount of training trophies a team can possess the chance is more realistic, and lower level teams can have a better chance of having said trophies. I mean, look were all the trophies concentrate in. The top 6 teams have 3 trophies or more. Today 10/31/2015 the top 6 teams have among them 25 trophies out of 30. That's certainly not balanced at all. The 4 top teams practically have 9 out of 10 training trophies, we have one of them. Certainly something must be done about it, either my suggestion, your or erma or something that goes along the same line.

[LittleOne]

Give trophies a letter and number ....e.g. T1, T2, T3, T4, T5 for trainings.

Set a time that they can be held......e.g. 1 week

After that week toss the trophy out randomly to another team. 

Team A for example hast T1 this week. 

At the end of week 1, the trophy is randomly tossed out to Team B.

Team B has to try and hold on to it.

Team A will not be able to win back T1 in week 2.  But they can win it back in week 3.

If Team B can't hold it for 24 hours. They can try again for it.  If they can hold it for longer, they go thru the same process as Team A.

 

But I also like that you can hold it for 48 hours.  Then you can't hold it for another 48 hours.  That would work too. 

 

Yes monopolies exist.  basically it is just greed.  Because the truth is, the only people who will do the trainings for 4 or 5 trophies are people who have donuts.  And it is highly difficult to have all donut users on one team.  So they are being held for just a few people on a team really. 

 

And people can have the best intentions regarding trophies----but at some point they all horde.  And if they aren't hording for themselves they have alliance teams that they are giving it to. And they want to pass them back and forth between the two.  And they say "oh I'm not hording"----but they have placed the other two trophies on their sister team.  So yeah----something needs to be done.

[Silverwing]

I like your idea LittleOne.  You are correct when you say if they aren't hording for themselves they have alliance teams they pass it to.  They then get their alliance teams to pass off the courage and energy trophies to ensure that those teams can never attack them because the -10 stats kills them.  So a team, such as us, who is in 3rd, can only beat 1st and 2nd if we have 3 trophies while they hold 5.  Their alliances constantly attack you and lose their trophies to ensure they never have competition and always hold the training trophies.  As I stated earlier, I can predict each day who will attack us because of what is happening out there. 

[King of Thieves]

 

I'm pretty sure your current team has attacked us a few times and even taken training trophies from us. So see? It can be done. And currently, your team has 2 training and 2 energy trophies. That's a pretty good set up. We only have 2 training. Both our teams have one courage. I'm not seeing the issue. In fact, of all the teams on the server, your's currently has THE best trophy case.

 

[EDIT] I see you changed your profile's team affiliation to reflect your current team.

 

        And the game is plenty fun. One just has to determine what they consider fun. Would it be fun for you to have the best trophy set? That would mean you were making it less fun for others, by that standard. And truth be told, your team does currently have the best trophy setup.

 

​Well I never posted in the forums since I signed up, so didn't realize the old team was listed.

 

As for your team having 3 trophies, it is pretty common knowledge that the 2nd place team took 1st from you a couple of days ago.  Giving away your trophies so that they can not attack you is a good way to do things.  Teams that are in 1st and 2nd place, would never see the issue that other teams are having because it wouldn't apply to them as they wouldn't have the issues.   As for our team beating​  you a couple of times, it is only when we have 3 trophies can we do so.  Once again, the top 2 teams are unbeatable when another team has 5 trophies which has been the case for months on end.  And as long as the top 2 teams have 3-5 training trophies at a time, no other team has a chance.

 

 

Actually, we were ahead of them until we dropped trophies to 3 teams that were much lower ranked than us. That cost us a lot of points and put us in 2nd. So no one took it. In a 5 vs 5 trophy scenario, we can beat the team that is currently in 1st. Then we hit the team that became 1st and took a trophy so they went from 3 training to 2, thus helping to balance the server more. That actually put us back in 1st, But they have since retaken 1st as of today. 

 

And why is it dropping trophies for us is a good way to do things, but not for you? I'm not understanding this.

 

Also, prior to that, we had 3 training, an energy and a courage. We dropped 2 training and an energy before hitting the other team to take their training. Again, this was done to help balance.

 

And personally, I like energy. Back when we were building to try to catch the team that had long dominated the server, we kept 3 training and 2 energy. That energy did a lot to help our team in our endeavor. I don't see what's so bad about an energy trophy, or what's so bad about being in 3rd place. 

 

It really sounds like you want your team to have 5 training and be in 1st place. What happens then? Does someone then say it's unfair your team is in that position? Really, I don't see what's so bad about being in 3rd place and having 2 training and 2 energy.

 

 

 

And this is why I made the suggestion, we can go back and fort discussing how things should be, but in reality it doesn't happen or it's a very hard thing to implement. So the game can be more relaxed for everyone and there are less arguments. I mean look at us, we are on top 10, what chance do we have to rise higher than 6 or eventually catch up to the stronger teams? Practically none, it's been a hard swim against the current and it's not just us, what about the other teams below us? By capping the amount of training trophies a team can possess the chance is more realistic, and lower level teams can have a better chance of having said trophies. I mean, look were all the trophies concentrate in. The top 6 teams have 3 trophies or more. Today 10/31/2015 the top 6 teams have among them 25 trophies out of 30. That's certainly not balanced at all. The 4 top teams practically have 9 out of 10 training trophies, we have one of them. Certainly something must be done about it, either my suggestion, your or erma or something that goes along the same line.

 

 

This was the case well before we took 1st too. But we still got there. You guys were once much lower ranked than you are. There were a couple times you were stuck. But you got past those humps. It just takes persistence, good recruiting, and some hard work. A LOT of ground can be made up simply by doing more than those teams above you. It'll take your whole team doing so though. Completing all missions and choosing them wisely, as well as doing villains religiously, will go a LONG way towards closing the gap. It's how we did it. Also, doing what you can to limit the teams above your's growth while maximizing your's is important. Again, this is exactly why we dropped 3 trophies (and plan to drop more) and took from the other team, to help the lower ranked teams catch up in power. And trying to gain power isn't the only strategy you must implement. Keeping your opponents from gaining power is also VERY important.

 

 

 

 

Yes monopolies exist.  basically it is just greed.  Because the truth is, the only people who will do the trainings for 4 or 5 trophies are people who have donuts.  And it is highly difficult to have all donut users on one team.  So they are being held for just a few people on a team really. 

 

And people can have the best intentions regarding trophies----but at some point they all horde.  And if they aren't hording for themselves they have alliance teams that they are giving it to. And they want to pass them back and forth between the two.  And they say "oh I'm not hording"----but they have placed the other two trophies on their sister team.  So yeah----something needs to be done.

 

 

I do agree that MOST ALL teams horde if they can. It's more a matter of if they can rather than if they do. Every team in the game would keep 5 training trophies if they could, with few exceptions. (Our goal was always to just keep 3 and 2 energy, so as to spread the wealth around and we only ever had more than 3 training for a couple days once.) 

 

I don't see the issue with giving a team one is friendly with a trophy. We've done it many times and rarely taken any from those teams. In truth, more often than not, when one of our friendly team loses a trophy, it's to a team we're not allied with. 

 

We even ran a "training" program for a looooong time where we had players from 5 other teams join us for a week at a time to make use of our trophies so they could get stronger before being replaced by another member of their team. But we had to stop that once the two teams that had dominated the server previously merged to try and regain their monopoly. We'll probably implement it again at some point if we find we are able to and still can keep teams from trying to hoard too many training trophies.

 

TBH, what this all really sounds like is people are saying it's not fair that other teams worked hard enough to grow their power to a level where they can hold whatever trophies they choose and/or are in a higher rank than them and that they should be able to do so too. But that takes working at it. Not everyone can be 1st or 2nd, or 3rd for that matter. All the teams that are in these places worked hard to get there, including 3rd, and have been there for some time due to their hard work. 

 

The solution to that is work harder and be more wiley than they are. Not to mention, be persistent. When you hit a snag, instead of throwing your hands in the air, double down. I watched a team fly up the ranks into top 10, then when the going got tough, instead of digging in, some of their members left the server. That left their team in a really bad spot when that team still had forward momentum. That momentum had simply slowed thanks to hitting the big leagues.

 

And just know that once you overtake them, then you'll be in the position they were and people will be saying about you what you're now saying about them.

 

In a perfect world, everyone would be in 1st place, but that's really just not possible. Really, I don't understand what's so bad about being in 6th or 5th or 4th or especially 3rd place. When we were coming up the ranks, we were in each of those positions and we celebrated each and every one of them.

Edited by King of Thieves, 31 October 2015 - 08:38 PM.

[Silverwing]

Hmmm, so let us look at what 3 training trophies do to the gangs that have them.  This gives them 25 trains per day, not counting villians.  Which means that gives you 5 stats extra over everyone else everyday.  Which in turn means that your players get stronger quicker and can never be beaten.  As long as you have 5 trophies and all the strongest players from the training trophies, will other teams have a chance.....  NEVER. 

 

Do I want 3 trophies for my team?  Once in a while it would be nice, but it is not what I am looking for?  I am looking for BALANCING.  I do my training and all my energy every day.  Never miss a beat.  Does this help my stats, sure it does.  Would having training trophies help my stats more, of course it would.  Is it balanced when 2 teams only get 3-5 training trophies and keep them forever?  NO.  You want to balance the server...  you won't if it means that your players don't get to train and stay on top of everyone else.  Oh wait, that is because you worked your way up from the bottom. 

[King of Thieves]

NO team on US2 has had 5 training since the monopolies were originally cracked. NONE. We had 4 for like 2 days once. For the most part, the top 2 teams, have RARELY had 4 training since the monopolies got cracked and NONE have had 5. We made SURE of it. So please, stop exaggerating to paint a picture that just isn't true. You keep talking about teams having 5 training trophies and none have more than 3, nor have they in some time.

 

What does a training trophy do? It gives 5 extra training. That nets a player 2.5 extra skill points. So a team that has 3 training trophies vs your team's 2, (which is the case when it comes to any teams that have more training than your's) is getting 2.5 more skill points than your's. That's hardly a game breaker. And your team HAS had 3 training quite often. I know this because every time we drop a trophy to a lower ranked team, your team "farms" them for it.

 

Yes, we DID work our way up from the bottom, as does every team that rises to the top. And in my opinion, 3rd is part of the top. We started the server AFTER the monopolies were in place and YOUR team was already in the top 10 when our's was still a noob team.

[Jagan]

If they were  going to limit the time on training trophies, the same should be done for all trophies. Monopolizing training trophies is only part of the equation. The second part is where a teams "Satellite teams start dropping or attempting to drop Courage trophies on their competition in an attempt to weaken them. So the team that is the victim of a weaker team trying to drop an undesirable trophy on them can only either purposely lose and lose honour or accept the trophy and have to find a way to lose it (And lose honour) somewhere else before they can even attempt to go after a training trophy. 

[King of Thieves]

I feel your pain Jagan. It seems like your team gets courage trophies dumped on them more than any other team does, and you guys try and work so hard for every inch you get. I wrote you a PM on how to help curb that problem. Please share with your team leaders.

Edited by King of Thieves, 31 October 2015 - 09:05 PM.

[Silverwing]

You may want to reread my posts.  I never once said a team had 5 TRAINING TROPHIES.  I always say 5 trophies.  I did say "Is it balanced when 2 teams only get 3-5 training trophies and keep them forever?"   But never have I said that you have.  For over 3 weeks we have been lucky to have 1 training trophy.  Yesterday we took our 2nd one in a long time because as fast as we do get one WE GET FARMED for ours.  And with every farm we usually 95% of the time lose the training and keep energy and courage ones.  Truly amazing odds, I would say.  If our team ever had 3 numerous times, then it was before I joined them.  I know of once since the day I joined. which was on July 3, 2015. 

[King of Thieves]

Ok, well your team has 5 trophies, so I don't see what the problem is. And saying "3-5 training trophies" implies that teams have 5 training at times, which hasn't been the case for approximately 1 year.

 

As far as odds go, those odds are the same for everyone. Attacking a team for one of their trophies shouldn't automatically guarantee a training, unless that's all they have. Our team has attacked teams that had 3 training and 1 courage and gotten the courage before. It happens. 

 

Your team has attacked our's as often as we've attacked them. And truth be told, we attack them far less than we attack other teams. And while it may have been before you were with your current team and still with the currently ranked 1st place team, I do recall them having 4 training once. I remember this because we attacked them to take one away, since we didn't want any teams to have more than 3 training. 

 

Is it higher ranked teams that are actually farming you or lower ranked ones? Because when my ear is to the street, I hear about lower ranked teams going after your trophies, which is quite easy to believe since all but 2 teams are lower ranked than your's.

 

Our personal strategy for taking trophies is to "farm" whichever teams give the best odds at a trophy we want or don't want them to have, and from those teams we go after the strongest. Though, sometimes we go after a team with poorer odds because they have too many training. Being 3rd ranked, your's is one of those teams that are among the strongest. But to be fair, almost invariably, when your team has 3 trophies and we have 5, your team attacks our's. This doesn't happen too often though, since your team usually has 4-5 trophies. 

 

And still, I don't see why you're upset at being ranked 3rd or for having the 2nd best trophy collection in the server atm, or even the 3rd best for that matter during those times when that is the case. You're saying it's unfair for a couple other teams gaining 2.5 more sp than you each day. Should the 4th place team be upset they aren't ranked higher than you? Or the 5th, etc? Should those teams with only 1 training or less be upset that you have 2?

 

3rd place is a truly good spot. If this were the Olympics, your team would be getting medals. To be upset with this is really pretty strange to me, and in truth if it were different and you had 3 training or were in one of the 2 rankings higher than your's, would you find it unfair to those ranked 1 spot down from you? So basically, the same complaints you have can be also be directed at you from every team except 2.

 

I know that as we came up the ranks, we were never upset about teams being higher ranked than us. We just continued to make our climb. And while we didn't like other teams having 4 training, we didn't find it unfair. We simply created strategies to combat it. And once we were in the position previously held by those teams, we remembered what it was like when the top teams held 4 training and made sure no teams held 4 training trophies for very long, including ourselves.

 

And if we did it, so can anyone else.

[Silverwing]

First, I was agreeing with Antonella's post in ​regards to how things should be reviewed and possibly changed, especially in regards to training trophies.  I am not UPSET as you think I am, I am debating with you how a lower team sees things, and yes, I am in the team ranked in 3rd place which is in your books TOP team. 

 

Now the overall goal is to be in number 1 position, like I am sure everyone wants to do.  In order to do this, you have to have the most honour.  In order to get honour, you have to have gang fights and strong players.  So we have a mixture of players, level wise and stat wise true.  ​So for a team to win they need higher stats than the opponents.  If you have 1 trophy of course, the stats are all lowered by 10%, 2 trophies 20% etc.  So yes currently we have 5 trophies so all our stats are lowered in a fight by 50%.  Now lets compare 2nd place team, just because, I don't want you to feel like I am attacking your team, this is a discussion (not an attack on you).  All of their players have high stats, why?  Well they have had a lot of extra training trophies so they can raise their stats quicker and be stronger, correct?   So they have 5 trophies and their stats are lowered by 50% too.  Well who will win the fight?  Them of course because even at 50% their stats are a lot higher.  So hence why I say to win, we could only have 3 trophies of any kind because then our 30% meets their 50% much better....  how am I doing so far.

 

So anyways, we can lose a couple of trophies to teams, which I might add we did this week so we didn't have 5.  This would now allow us to try to win a fight.... the very second that we do, what happens.  Certain gangs, or in this case, we can call them "academy gangs" because they were, deliberately attack us to DROP a courage/energy trophy.  Now if these trophies were so good as you say energy is, why would they do that?  Me, having some brains in my head, says TO STOP US FROM ATTACKING their MOTHER gangs and stealing their trophies and/or honour.  Now I have to wonder, why wouldn't they attack when they have 3 trophies and we have 5 for honour to raise them up higher in the rankings....  that I can not answer and can tell you that they don't........... hmmm........

 

So back to TRAINING trophies, the more training you can hold, the higher your stats get raised (even if it is only 2.5) much quicker than any other gangs.  Hence giving the underdogs the disadvantage....  

 

Just a redhead's 2 cents worth

​

[King of Thieves]

3rd place is a top team. Your's is the 3rd strongest on the server. By all but maybe 2 teams, it's a top team. 

 

I think the goal is to have fun and 2nd be the strongest team. Honor is a byproduct of that. 

 

All of our players have high stats for many reasons. After all, we started the server 8.5 months after it started and about half the teams in the top 10 were there when we started. So those teams had access to trophy bonuses as well as longer spans playing the game and gaining stats than we did. Only 2 players on my team started at a time significantly longer than I did. 

 

So This assumption about having some advantage is incorrect because other teams had that same advantage over us before we did. We negated that advantage through working hard at it. All our members do all the missions and training they can, including special missions. Furthermore, we made good use of trophies that weren't training until such time as we could have training. We did the extra missions from energy trophies and did fights as often as possible from our courage trophies, thus gaining more coin for sp. Furthermore, as a whole, our team was extremely active in fighting villains. Villains are the equivalent of 1.5 energy trophies and 1.5 training trophies. We regularly have 50% more players hitting a villain than the other top teams. So in essence, we worked really hard to get our power. We had to work uphill to do so too. Both teams you've been a part of were higher ranked and had more time with trophies than we did. So based on your theory, we should never have been able to beat either, yet we did.

 

You have 5 trophies right now, 2 training, 2 energy and 1 courage.  Your team regularly has 5 trophies. It may not at times, but usually it does, and more often than not, that includes at least 2 training.

 

Are you sure those teams were trying to drop energy trophies? I know for a fact some teams were trying to get your training trophies and instead lost their energy because they weren't strong enough to beat you.

 

Again, I like energy trophies. They allowed IMG to become the 4th highest level player in the game despite starting the server 8 months after it started, and gain on many players that were once stronger than him.

 

As far as attacking "mother gangs" goes, this game has strategy involved. There are strategies for both offensive maneuvers and defensive ones and as the game and players develop, new strategies will develop. Each strategy was developed to combat a specific strategy that came before it. So the key would be to come up with new strategies and implement them. I just shared one with Jagan in PM to combat what you're discussing and discovered her team already uses the strategy I provided. They used it to climb to 4th, one rank below your's.

 

Perhaps they aren't attacking you because they are currently implementing a different strategy or see another opportunity. Being the 3rd place team, I can tell you honestly that I pay enough attention to see your team is always under attack by someone. Rarely do you not have a shield by your team in the lists. So perhaps they're not attacking you because they can't.

 

We used to be the underdogs. Again, we did it. I even explained how. You can too. And having been a member in both the top ranked team and the 3rd top ranked team hardly makes you an underdog. You have all the same advantages we had when we were coming up the ranks. And we had all the same disadvantages you say you have. Again, both your teams were in the top 10 back when our team 1st started.

[LittleOne]

Interesting.  First----I am just asking this question-  absolutely and positively no offense is meant by it. 

 

Villains Inc. made it to number one after the Star Alliance issue right?  I am only bringing that up because to say we did it so you can do it, well your situation was a special situation.  There was an influence from the Star Alliance situation where they kind of fell apart. It is difficult to take a number one spot when teams have a lot of trainings.  If it didn't work, people wouldn't do it.  They would treat the training trophies like they do the courage.

 

In my plan for the trophies, I just used training trophies as an example.  But it could be done with all the trophies.

 

I think it would make the game more fun to randomly throw out the trophies at the end of the week or every 48 hours even.  How cool would that be?!?!?

 

Drunken Degenerates is a good team.  I think it's ok to want to be in the number one spot.  Even if you are in third place.  But the idea of making a more fair trophy environment, well it wouldn't just benefit DD, it would benefit the whole server.  That is always a good thing.

[Silverwing]

WOW HATS OFF TO YOU KoT, I guess we have a lot to learn from you and your gang, I curtsy to you.

 

I watched you this morning and you realized that the 7th place team who was attacking you were probably going to win and you would take the only trophy that they had.  Your team did the valiant thing and all left the gang and returned so that you didn't sign up for the fight so that they could win.  You guys gave up a training trophy for the underdogs.  That was so kind of you to do that for them.

 

 

 

Are you sure those teams were trying to drop energy trophies? I know for a fact some teams were trying to get your training trophies and instead lost their energy because they weren't strong enough to beat you.

 

 

I totally understand what you are saying about this.  Our gang, should also be recognizing this and consider helping out the smaller teams too.  All I can say is wow, just wow,  kudos to your team on such a nice gesture.

[Excrucio]

I've said it before but i'll say it again.  Easiest way to remedy the situation would be to simply introduce more trophies (double, triple, however many more).  There are a LOT more teams now than when trophies were first introduced.  Only makes sense to have more trophies now.  Don't blame another team for "monopolizing" imo, blame the game devs for releasing such a limited amount despite a larger playerbase.

[Relentless]

What Excrucio said. This just needs to happen.

[LittleOne]

Adding more trophies would work.   But if they can get monopolized too they will.  It's human nature. Throwing tthem out randomly after a certain time.   This would solve everthing.  And they already do that at the beginning of the server.  Just keep that as a regular thing.

 

I think it's human nature to want to have as many as possible of certain ones that will help you advance.  So gotta throw in something that will counter act that.